Highlights of Oct 8 Debate
Bush: “And obviously we hope that diplomacy works before you ever use force. The hardest decision a president makes is ever to use force.”” So I tried diplomacy, went to the United Nations.”
(“Obviously” he did not exhaust diplomacy before he used force.)
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“And the unique threat was that he could give weapons of mass destruction to an organization like Al Qaida, and the harm they inflicted on us with airplanes would be multiplied greatly by weapons of mass destruction. And that was the serious, serious threat. “
(It has been proven over and over that there was no connection between Saddam and al Qaida.)
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BUSH: Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies. Sanctions were not working. The United Nations was not effective at removing Saddam Hussein.
KERRY: The goal of the sanctions was not to remove Saddam Hussein, it was to remove the weapons of mass destruction. And, Mr. President, just yesterday the Duelfer report told you and the whole world they worked. He didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Mr. President. That was the objective.
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Kerry: Senator Richard Lugar, the Republican chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said that the handling of the reconstruction aid in Iraq by this administration has been incompetent. Those are the Republican chairman's words. Senator Hagel of Nebraska said that the handling of Iraq is beyond pitiful, beyond embarrassing; it's in the zone of dangerous. Those are the words of two Republicans, respected, both on the Foreign Relations Committee.
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Bush: “Nobody is going to follow somebody who doesn't believe we can succeed and with somebody who says that war where we are is a mistake. “ (Kerry has never said that we cannot succeed and in fact, actually has a plan to do so, unlike Bush!)
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When asked: “Mr. President, my mother and sister traveled abroad this summer, and when they got back they talked to us about how shocked they were at the intensity of aggravation that other countries had with how we handled the Iraq situation. Diplomacy is obviously something that we really have to really work on. What is your plan to repair relations with other countries given the current situation?”
Bush gave another roundabout non-answer – basically he explains the many reasons why we are unpopular without saying how he will resolve these problems.
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BUSH: “That answer almost made me want to scowl. He keeps talking about, Let the inspectors do their job. It's naive and dangerous to say that. That's what the Duelfer report showed. He was deceiving the inspectors. “
(Again, a blatant lie – there was no deception – there were no weapons! He refers to this repeatedly, even though it is proof that he is wrong, he tries to say that it proves he is right! Amazing!)
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GIBSON: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute...
BUSH: Let me just -- I've got to answer this.
GIBSON: Exactly. And with Reservists being held on duty...
(CROSSTALK)
BUSH: Let me answer what he just said, about around the world.
GIBSON: Well, I want to get into the issue of the back-door draft...
(Bush is obviously being allowed to talk, but is so insistent that he doesn’t realize that he is being given this extension, even though Gibson does not have to allow it)
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KERRY: Mr. President, countries are leaving the coalition, not joining. Eight countries have left it. If Missouri, just given the number of people from Missouri who are in the military over there today, were a country, it would be the third largest country in the coalition, behind Great Britain and the United States. That's not a grand coalition.
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Bush: “First of all, I don't think he can succeed in Iraq. And if Iraq were to fail, it'd be a haven for terrorists, and there would be money and the world would be much more dangerous. “
(Sorry but it now a haven for terrorists because of our actions!)
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Bush: “I don't see how you can win in Iraq if you don't believe we should be there in the first place. I don't see how you can lead troops if you say it's the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time.”
(It WAS the wrong war at the wrong time – he keeps repeating this in the hopes that people will forget that this is true - but now we have to fix this disaster so that we are not even more hated in the world!)
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Bush: “I don't see how the Iraqis are going to have confidence in the American president if all they hear is that it was a mistake to be there in the first place.”
(They don’t have to hear that from us! They can look around them as see what a mistake it was! I can’t imagine that they have much confidence in the president that bombed them!)
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“This war is a long, long war”(I thought we had already won the war?!)
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Bush: Now, he talks about Medicare. He's been in the United States Senate 20 years. Show me one accomplishment toward Medicare that he accomplished.
KERRY: Actually, Mr. President, in 1997 we fixed Medicare, and I was one of the people involved in it. We not only fixed Medicare and took it way out into the future, we did something that you don't know how to do: We balanced the budget. And we paid down the debt of our nation for two years in a row, and we created 23 million new jobs at the same time. And it's the president's fiscal policies that have driven up the biggest deficits in American history. He's added more debt to the debt of the United States in four years than all the way from George Washington to Ronald Reagan put together. Go figure.
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LAURENT: Senator Kerry, you've stated your concern for the rising cost of health care, yet you chose a vice presidential candidate who has made millions of dollars successfully suing medical professionals. How do you reconcile this with the voters?
KERRY: Very easily. John Edwards is the author of the Patients' Bill of Rights. He wanted to give people rights. John Edwards and I support tort reform.
Is it a problem? Yes, it's a problem. Do we need to fix it? Yes. But it's less than 1 percent of the total cost of health care. Your premiums are going up. You've gone up, in Missouri, about $3,500. You've gone up 64 percent. You've seen co-pays go up, deductibles go up. Everything's gone up. Five million people have lost their health insurance under this president. He's done nothing about it. I have a plan.
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Bush: First, the National Journal named Senator Kennedy the most liberal senator of all. And that's saying something in that bunch. You might say that took a lot of hard work.
(is this relevant – oh wait, he means Kerry!)
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"Secondly, he says that medical liability costs only cause a 1 percent increase. That shows a lack of understanding. Doctors practice defensive medicine because of all the frivolous lawsuits that cost our government $28 billion a year." (See factcheck.org for the truth about this lie)
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"And finally, he said he's going to have a novel health care plan. You know what it is? The federal government is going to run it."(another outright lie)
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"That's what liberals do. They create government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't. Government-sponsored health care would lead to rationing. It would ruin the quality of health care in America." (still another lie - again, see FactCheck.org for all of these lies)
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O'BRIEN: Mr. President, you have enjoyed a Republican majority in the House and Senate for most of your presidency. In that time, you've not vetoed a single spending bill. Excluding $120 billion spent in Iran and -- I'm sorry, Iraq and Afghanistan, there has been $700 billion spent and not paid for by taxes. Please explain how the spending you have approved and not paid for is better for the American people than the spending proposed by your opponent.
Bsuh: “And you're right, I haven't vetoed any spending bills, because we work together. Non-homeland, non-defense discretionary spending was raising at 15 percent a year when I got into office. And today it's less than 1 percent, because we're working together to try to bring this deficit under control.” (So, he is admitting that he is working at controlling the deficit by cutting homeland programs that we desperately need!)
Kerry: He talked about war. This is the first time the United States of America has ever had a tax cut when we're at war. After 9/11, after the recession had ended, the president asked for another tax cut and promised 5.6 million jobs would be created. He lost 1.6 million, ladies and gentlemen. And most of that tax cut went to the wealthiest people in the country. He came and asked for a tax cut -- we wanted a tax cut to kick the economy into gear. Do you know what he presented us with? A $25 billion giveaway to the biggest corporations in America, including a $254 million refund check to Enron. Wrong priorities. You are my priority.
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Bush: We've got battling green eye shades. (is this just a really strange statement? I guess that he’s making some reference to accounting, but it sure seems obscure! I thought he was talking about makeup at first!)
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BUSH: “Yes, I mean, he's got a record. It's been there for 20 years. You can run, but you can't hide.” (he kept repeating this as if it made sense – we never understood what this meant until a moderator gave their opinion). “He voted 98 times to raise taxes. I mean, these aren't make-up figures.” (Actually, yes they are!)
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Bush : This is different from saying, OK, let me incent you to go on the government. (does this make any sense?)
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FOWLER: President Bush, 45 days after 9/11, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which takes away checks on law enforcement and weakens American citizens' rights and freedoms, especially Fourth Amendment rights. With expansions to the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II, my question to you is, why are my rights being watered down and my citizens' around me? And what are the specific justifications for these reforms?
BUSH: I really don't think your rights are being watered down. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't support it if I thought that. So I really don't think so. I hope you don't think that. I mean, I -- because I think whoever is the president must guard your liberties, must not erode your rights in America. (True – which is why we need a new president!)
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MICHAELSON: Mr. President, if there were a vacancy in the Supreme Court and you had the opportunity to fill that position today, who would you choose and why?
BUSH: “I'm not telling. I wouldn't pick a judge who said that the Pledge of Allegiance couldn't be said in a school because it had the words under God in it. I think that's an example of a judge allowing personal opinion to enter into the decision-making process as opposed to a strict interpretation of the Constitution.” (No, actually, it is making the distinction of separation of church and state!)
“Another example would be the Dred Scott case, which is where judges, years ago, said that the Constitution allowed slavery because of personal property rights.” (Good to know that Bush is against slavery!)
“That's a personal opinion. That's not what the Constitution says. The Constitution of the United States says we're all -- you know, it doesn't say that. It doesn't speak to the equality of America.” (Wait – he says that the Constitution does NOT speak to the equality of America! That explains why he wants an amendment discriminating against gays!)
KERRY: A few years ago when he came to office, the president said -- these are his words -- What we need are some good conservative judges on the courts. I subscribe to the Justice Potter Stewart standard. He was a justice on the Supreme Court of the United States. And he said the mark of a good judge, good justice, is that when you're reading their decision, their opinion, you can't tell if it's written by a man or woman, a liberal or a conservative, a Muslim, a Jew or a Christian. You just know you're reading a good judicial decision.
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BUSH: "I'm trying to decipher that."
(How many times is he going to admit that he cannot understand Kerry’s statements? Kerry speaks plain English!)
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BUSH: "Put a head fake on us." (What in the hell does this mean?!)
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GRABEL: President Bush, during the last four years, you have made thousands of decisions that have affected millions of lives. Please give three instances in which you came to realize you had made a wrong decision, and what you did to correct it. Thank you.
(Bush refuses to admit any mistakes! Well that’s facing reality! He instead talks about the things he believed he did right!)
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BUSH: “He complains about the fact our troops don't have adequate equipment, yet he voted against the $87 billion supplemental I sent to the Congress and then issued one of the most amazing quotes in political history: I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it. “ (How many times is he going to yammer on about this?! The $87 billion was the 3rd request for funding for the war in less than a year. Kerry said he would not vote for this unless they pay for it by partially rolling back their most recent tax cuts for the rich, and Congress be given greater oversight into how the money was being spent, so we wouldn't see billions thrown into the off-shore bank accounts of corporations.)
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And the first closing statement goes to Senator Kerry. I believe that was the agreement.
(Bush jumps up and starts to talk - as he has throughout the debate)
KERRY: Do you want to go first?
BUSH: Either way.
(Nice of him to concede to follow the rules!)
Sorry this was so lengthy, but there were so many great points made by Kerry and so many absurd ones by Bush!
(“Obviously” he did not exhaust diplomacy before he used force.)
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“And the unique threat was that he could give weapons of mass destruction to an organization like Al Qaida, and the harm they inflicted on us with airplanes would be multiplied greatly by weapons of mass destruction. And that was the serious, serious threat. “
(It has been proven over and over that there was no connection between Saddam and al Qaida.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUSH: Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies. Sanctions were not working. The United Nations was not effective at removing Saddam Hussein.
KERRY: The goal of the sanctions was not to remove Saddam Hussein, it was to remove the weapons of mass destruction. And, Mr. President, just yesterday the Duelfer report told you and the whole world they worked. He didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Mr. President. That was the objective.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kerry: Senator Richard Lugar, the Republican chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said that the handling of the reconstruction aid in Iraq by this administration has been incompetent. Those are the Republican chairman's words. Senator Hagel of Nebraska said that the handling of Iraq is beyond pitiful, beyond embarrassing; it's in the zone of dangerous. Those are the words of two Republicans, respected, both on the Foreign Relations Committee.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush: “Nobody is going to follow somebody who doesn't believe we can succeed and with somebody who says that war where we are is a mistake. “ (Kerry has never said that we cannot succeed and in fact, actually has a plan to do so, unlike Bush!)
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When asked: “Mr. President, my mother and sister traveled abroad this summer, and when they got back they talked to us about how shocked they were at the intensity of aggravation that other countries had with how we handled the Iraq situation. Diplomacy is obviously something that we really have to really work on. What is your plan to repair relations with other countries given the current situation?”
Bush gave another roundabout non-answer – basically he explains the many reasons why we are unpopular without saying how he will resolve these problems.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUSH: “That answer almost made me want to scowl. He keeps talking about, Let the inspectors do their job. It's naive and dangerous to say that. That's what the Duelfer report showed. He was deceiving the inspectors. “
(Again, a blatant lie – there was no deception – there were no weapons! He refers to this repeatedly, even though it is proof that he is wrong, he tries to say that it proves he is right! Amazing!)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GIBSON: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute...
BUSH: Let me just -- I've got to answer this.
GIBSON: Exactly. And with Reservists being held on duty...
(CROSSTALK)
BUSH: Let me answer what he just said, about around the world.
GIBSON: Well, I want to get into the issue of the back-door draft...
(Bush is obviously being allowed to talk, but is so insistent that he doesn’t realize that he is being given this extension, even though Gibson does not have to allow it)
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KERRY: Mr. President, countries are leaving the coalition, not joining. Eight countries have left it. If Missouri, just given the number of people from Missouri who are in the military over there today, were a country, it would be the third largest country in the coalition, behind Great Britain and the United States. That's not a grand coalition.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush: “First of all, I don't think he can succeed in Iraq. And if Iraq were to fail, it'd be a haven for terrorists, and there would be money and the world would be much more dangerous. “
(Sorry but it now a haven for terrorists because of our actions!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush: “I don't see how you can win in Iraq if you don't believe we should be there in the first place. I don't see how you can lead troops if you say it's the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time.”
(It WAS the wrong war at the wrong time – he keeps repeating this in the hopes that people will forget that this is true - but now we have to fix this disaster so that we are not even more hated in the world!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush: “I don't see how the Iraqis are going to have confidence in the American president if all they hear is that it was a mistake to be there in the first place.”
(They don’t have to hear that from us! They can look around them as see what a mistake it was! I can’t imagine that they have much confidence in the president that bombed them!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“This war is a long, long war”(I thought we had already won the war?!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush: Now, he talks about Medicare. He's been in the United States Senate 20 years. Show me one accomplishment toward Medicare that he accomplished.
KERRY: Actually, Mr. President, in 1997 we fixed Medicare, and I was one of the people involved in it. We not only fixed Medicare and took it way out into the future, we did something that you don't know how to do: We balanced the budget. And we paid down the debt of our nation for two years in a row, and we created 23 million new jobs at the same time. And it's the president's fiscal policies that have driven up the biggest deficits in American history. He's added more debt to the debt of the United States in four years than all the way from George Washington to Ronald Reagan put together. Go figure.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LAURENT: Senator Kerry, you've stated your concern for the rising cost of health care, yet you chose a vice presidential candidate who has made millions of dollars successfully suing medical professionals. How do you reconcile this with the voters?
KERRY: Very easily. John Edwards is the author of the Patients' Bill of Rights. He wanted to give people rights. John Edwards and I support tort reform.
Is it a problem? Yes, it's a problem. Do we need to fix it? Yes. But it's less than 1 percent of the total cost of health care. Your premiums are going up. You've gone up, in Missouri, about $3,500. You've gone up 64 percent. You've seen co-pays go up, deductibles go up. Everything's gone up. Five million people have lost their health insurance under this president. He's done nothing about it. I have a plan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush: First, the National Journal named Senator Kennedy the most liberal senator of all. And that's saying something in that bunch. You might say that took a lot of hard work.
(is this relevant – oh wait, he means Kerry!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Secondly, he says that medical liability costs only cause a 1 percent increase. That shows a lack of understanding. Doctors practice defensive medicine because of all the frivolous lawsuits that cost our government $28 billion a year." (See factcheck.org for the truth about this lie)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"And finally, he said he's going to have a novel health care plan. You know what it is? The federal government is going to run it."(another outright lie)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"That's what liberals do. They create government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't. Government-sponsored health care would lead to rationing. It would ruin the quality of health care in America." (still another lie - again, see FactCheck.org for all of these lies)
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O'BRIEN: Mr. President, you have enjoyed a Republican majority in the House and Senate for most of your presidency. In that time, you've not vetoed a single spending bill. Excluding $120 billion spent in Iran and -- I'm sorry, Iraq and Afghanistan, there has been $700 billion spent and not paid for by taxes. Please explain how the spending you have approved and not paid for is better for the American people than the spending proposed by your opponent.
Bsuh: “And you're right, I haven't vetoed any spending bills, because we work together. Non-homeland, non-defense discretionary spending was raising at 15 percent a year when I got into office. And today it's less than 1 percent, because we're working together to try to bring this deficit under control.” (So, he is admitting that he is working at controlling the deficit by cutting homeland programs that we desperately need!)
Kerry: He talked about war. This is the first time the United States of America has ever had a tax cut when we're at war. After 9/11, after the recession had ended, the president asked for another tax cut and promised 5.6 million jobs would be created. He lost 1.6 million, ladies and gentlemen. And most of that tax cut went to the wealthiest people in the country. He came and asked for a tax cut -- we wanted a tax cut to kick the economy into gear. Do you know what he presented us with? A $25 billion giveaway to the biggest corporations in America, including a $254 million refund check to Enron. Wrong priorities. You are my priority.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush: We've got battling green eye shades. (is this just a really strange statement? I guess that he’s making some reference to accounting, but it sure seems obscure! I thought he was talking about makeup at first!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUSH: “Yes, I mean, he's got a record. It's been there for 20 years. You can run, but you can't hide.” (he kept repeating this as if it made sense – we never understood what this meant until a moderator gave their opinion). “He voted 98 times to raise taxes. I mean, these aren't make-up figures.” (Actually, yes they are!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush : This is different from saying, OK, let me incent you to go on the government. (does this make any sense?)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOWLER: President Bush, 45 days after 9/11, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which takes away checks on law enforcement and weakens American citizens' rights and freedoms, especially Fourth Amendment rights. With expansions to the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II, my question to you is, why are my rights being watered down and my citizens' around me? And what are the specific justifications for these reforms?
BUSH: I really don't think your rights are being watered down. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't support it if I thought that. So I really don't think so. I hope you don't think that. I mean, I -- because I think whoever is the president must guard your liberties, must not erode your rights in America. (True – which is why we need a new president!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MICHAELSON: Mr. President, if there were a vacancy in the Supreme Court and you had the opportunity to fill that position today, who would you choose and why?
BUSH: “I'm not telling. I wouldn't pick a judge who said that the Pledge of Allegiance couldn't be said in a school because it had the words under God in it. I think that's an example of a judge allowing personal opinion to enter into the decision-making process as opposed to a strict interpretation of the Constitution.” (No, actually, it is making the distinction of separation of church and state!)
“Another example would be the Dred Scott case, which is where judges, years ago, said that the Constitution allowed slavery because of personal property rights.” (Good to know that Bush is against slavery!)
“That's a personal opinion. That's not what the Constitution says. The Constitution of the United States says we're all -- you know, it doesn't say that. It doesn't speak to the equality of America.” (Wait – he says that the Constitution does NOT speak to the equality of America! That explains why he wants an amendment discriminating against gays!)
KERRY: A few years ago when he came to office, the president said -- these are his words -- What we need are some good conservative judges on the courts. I subscribe to the Justice Potter Stewart standard. He was a justice on the Supreme Court of the United States. And he said the mark of a good judge, good justice, is that when you're reading their decision, their opinion, you can't tell if it's written by a man or woman, a liberal or a conservative, a Muslim, a Jew or a Christian. You just know you're reading a good judicial decision.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUSH: "I'm trying to decipher that."
(How many times is he going to admit that he cannot understand Kerry’s statements? Kerry speaks plain English!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUSH: "Put a head fake on us." (What in the hell does this mean?!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GRABEL: President Bush, during the last four years, you have made thousands of decisions that have affected millions of lives. Please give three instances in which you came to realize you had made a wrong decision, and what you did to correct it. Thank you.
(Bush refuses to admit any mistakes! Well that’s facing reality! He instead talks about the things he believed he did right!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUSH: “He complains about the fact our troops don't have adequate equipment, yet he voted against the $87 billion supplemental I sent to the Congress and then issued one of the most amazing quotes in political history: I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it. “ (How many times is he going to yammer on about this?! The $87 billion was the 3rd request for funding for the war in less than a year. Kerry said he would not vote for this unless they pay for it by partially rolling back their most recent tax cuts for the rich, and Congress be given greater oversight into how the money was being spent, so we wouldn't see billions thrown into the off-shore bank accounts of corporations.)
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And the first closing statement goes to Senator Kerry. I believe that was the agreement.
(Bush jumps up and starts to talk - as he has throughout the debate)
KERRY: Do you want to go first?
BUSH: Either way.
(Nice of him to concede to follow the rules!)
Sorry this was so lengthy, but there were so many great points made by Kerry and so many absurd ones by Bush!
posted by rich at 3:19 PM
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